World of Washers

Marta writes:

Hi Brad,

I'm researching and researching and would like to buy a front loader, but I don't need bells and whistles (it's me, my husband, and one son) - just clean clothes and reliability. I would forego extras for a lower price. Is there a reliable front loader to be had for anything close to the prices for top loading machines? Will I be able to buy a washer/dryer for around $1200?

Margaret writes:

I just found your web page and thought it was wonderful however I couldn’t find anything that might answer my question. I have a Whirlpool Washer that is 13 years old. It was working fine up until last night when I found the lid switch has rusted all around the area that holds it so that it no longer operates. My son helped me rig up a temporary solution with some legos last night but by this morning the rust gave way to more area so the legos no longer work. I do realize I can purchase a new lid switch even though what I have actually works if I want to stand and hold it during the entire wash but I’m thinking with the amount of rust all around the top it might just be time for a new washer.

I bought a new dryer about 3 years ago which was a very unreliable Maytag and have spent lots of money on repairs but it currently is working so I’m not quite ready to buy another. My laundry room is on the second floor and I need to go with top loaders for if no other reason, my washer dryer connections are reversed with the gas lines run with a build out into a closet which to make a long story short is easier not to try and switch.

So, finally my question – I am so totally lost now about washers I’m about at my wits end reading and getting more and more confused with all that I read. With it being Labor Day there are lots of sales and as my washer really doesn’t actually work properly I think I need to get moving on this. But I don’t understand what is a reliable good washer these days. At first I thought the fisher Paykel were good but now it doesn’t seem so. I don’t need lots of fancy things but it would be nice to have the energy efficiency and won’t break down like my dryer. The washer I have now just says Whirlpool Super Capacity Plus Supreme but doesn’t say what its capacity is but I have washed a king size comforter and it did fine. So, I would like a washer at least the same size – its width is 26 ½ and the height is 36 ½, if that helps at all.

Can you help me? It seems like most information I find are all on the front loaders. My main problem with them is the door are not switchable and with my connections being reversed it just won’t work. Thank you so much for any help you can give me.

Margaret

My response:

Margaret,

Thank you very much for writing.

If you are looking for a top load washer, and reliability is important, then I would encourage you to take a look at Speed Queen. These washers are built like the Maytags of old used to be built like, and they are one of the few appliances anymore that come with a full three year warranty. These machines are simply built like tanks, and they are easy to fix if something should go wrong.

You will not find Speed Queen at any of the national retailers. You will need to find a local dealer. Even though they are harder to find, and even though they cost a bit more than a typical top load washer, they are worth the investment.

If you are looking for energy efficiency, then I would encourage you to look at the GE Profile Harmony. I know many people who own this washer and are happy with it, and it is the only high-efficiency top load washer I would recommend. It has a lot of bells and whistles, which most people do not need, but it washers well and will use less water and energy.

For frontload washers, there is at least one washer on the market that has a reversible door, and that is made by Asko, a European company. Asko offers the small, Euro-sized washers, but they also make a model made specifically for the American market with the bigger capacity. Again, you will need to seek out Asko at a local dealer, as they are not in any of the national chains.

Aside from the above, if you decide to go with another Whirlpool washer (or even a Maytag, as they are owned by Whirlpool and are of Whirlpool design) then you will get a decent washer for a decent price. Just stay around the $400 price-point and you will be fine. Whirlpool design is proven, and there is no shortage of technicians available to work on them.

So take a look at Speed Queen first. I think you will be happy with what you see.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

~Brad

Margaret replied:

Brad,

Wow. Thank you so much for all this information. I can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate this. Trying to research on the internet can be great but if there are a lot of choices and too much information then it is just overwhelming and frustrating. You have helped me tremendously and I will start looking for local dealers.

Again Thank You!

Margaret

From Lori:

Hi Brad,

I just wanted to tell you I printed out your directions to fix that darn f51 code. (Note: the instructions Lori is referring to are in this post.) We've had our Cabrio just under 2 years and have been having the f51 for about 7months now. I happened upon your blog and was happy that others share in my problem, but then again got angry that so many folks are having the problem!! So, my husband and I decided to tackle it today. I'm pretty handy and my husband deals with buttons and levers as he is a commercial airline pilot. We followed your directions and had it knocked out in about 30 - 45 mins. I've washed about 7 loads since the repair and haven't had the error one time. Also, it may just be me but I think it is running better. The clothes seem to be rinsing and spinning better and are just damp at the end of the cycle instead of still wet. I appreciate your help and savings of the $575.00 that Appliance Doctor wanted to charge us!

~Lori and Eric

My response:

Hi Lori and Eric!

I am very happy that you were able to fix your machine without having to pay for an expensive service call. But I can't take credit for anything more than regurgitating info someone else took the time to write. I have had a lot of positive feedback from people like you who have found Mr. Baxter's information helpful. I hope it proves to be a permanent fix.

Best Wishes,
Brad

Lori replied back with the following:

I did realize my mistake after I had already sent the email! If you have any contact with Mr. Baxter, please forward my email or post it!! I meant to add that all we did was unplug and plug the wires back into the housing( I can't remember what it's called now, lol) 3x. We didn't tackle the full repair. Since I have emailed you we still haven't had the error! :D

If you have purchased a washing machine, you may have noticed that you (or the delivery crew) needed to remove some hardware from the washer after setting the unit in place. In some cases it is a single, long rod through the bottom of the washer. In others it is a series of bolts through the back of the machine. In other cases, it may be as simple as a foam insert in the top of the wash basket or at the base of the machine.

Regardless of the hardware used by the manufacturers, it all serves a single purpose: to stabilize the drum while the machine is in transit to prevent damage to the machine.

Pretty simple. The problems, though, arise when the hardware is discarded after installation, and then you have to end up moving the machine a few years later. Do you still have the original hardware that was included? Did the delivery personnel leave it for you, or did they take it with them? If they gave it to you, did you keep it, or throw it out not realizing you may need it in the future? According to this complaint on My3cents.com, it is Sears policy to take away the shipping bolts after making a delivery.

The importance of this hardware cannot be understated. Appliances can go through a lot of abuse when being moved, and suspension damage can easily occur if washing machine drums are not properly stabilized. I have heard of numerous instances, especially in frontload washers, where the machine was moved without the drum properly secured. This puts a tremendous strain on the suspension, and can lead to excessive vibration or even a machine that simply will not work properly.

A few months ago, I was contacted by a representative of Litco, a company which sells supplies to moving companies. They had invented a device which could be used to properly secure the drum in virtually any washing machine. The device is genius in its simplicity, and I am convinced that this product will provide the protection required to safely transport machines while preventing any internal damage.

Check out one of the videos below, or head on over to Litco's website for more information. If you decide you want to place an order, you can call them directly at (877) 284-5043.

Remember, it's a one-fit kit, so it will work for your washing machine.



Note: Although I have written a post about this product, and have also displayed a Litkit ad on my page, I have not been paid for this testimony. I firmly believe in this product.

So I was wandering around Craigslist today, just window shopping. I am actually in the market for a new washer and dryer (despite the fact that I write about these things, I can't really afford a brand-spanking new set), and decided to see what is available. I knew there would be a decent selection, since I sold my Maytag Neptune set on Craiglist several years ago. I had it sold within an hour of posting the ad!

As I was perusing these ads, I found myself thinking about someone who is really hard-up for a new washer or dryer. Maybe a family with one (or both) adults unemployed need to replace a machine that recently took a dump. Or in my case, I could probably swing a decent new set, but am finding myself on shaky ground employment-wise, and spending $700 or $800 would not be a wise decision. Regardless of the reason, there are some great finds on Craigslist. Below are a few from my neck of the woods.

Kenmore Elite HE3 Electric Dryer - $400
2003 Kenmore Elite HE3 Electric Dryer. Color - Bisque. Includes 15 in. pedestal. Similar to front load washing machine. Very Good condition.

Maytag Electric Washer - $100
We have been using this washer for the past five years. The previous owners sold both the washer and dryer during the sale of the home. They owned it for seven years and had purchased it brand new. There are no issues at all with this great machine. Currently, we are remodeling the home and a lot of new appliances are being bought to replace some of the older ones. That is the only reason this is up for sale. We have yet to buy a new washer and dryer but may be doing so in the next coming days. Model #LAT8840BAW made in newton, IA. Very reliable washer and super load capacity.
(Note: This is a Maytag from when they still made great machines. I'd buy it!)
Old Whirlpool Washer - $40
An old Imperial Seventy Model Whirlpool Washer.
It has 2 speeds- 5 cycles
Heavy Duty
Super Capacity (BIG)
It is not pretty, but it works well and I'm only asking $40 for it.
(Note: I currently spend ten bucks a week at the laundromat. I'd have my money back in a month!)

Washer/Dryer Stackable and Frontloading - $200
I'm selling a Danby Designer Washer/Dryer. They're great for Apartments or Townhouses or any place where space is an issue. I bought them a year and a half ago, but six months ago the "heating element" went bad. The past is approximately 40 dollars. I was in the process of moving so, I had never gotten it fixed. It spins, just no heat. Other than that. They both work great.
(Note: Go over to GardenWeb and do a search for "Danby", see what the laundry nerds have to say about this machine. They love it!)

Electric Whirlpool Washer and Dryer Set - $100
I will be moving this weekend and need to part with this set by then. This set is chestnut brown super capacity, the washer is 2 speed 9 cycles, and the dryer is 6 cycles infinite temp. Both in excellent shape with some minor scratches. A good deal for an xlrg capacity. I purchased 1 yr ago from a used furniture store with no problems whatsoever.

Occasionally, you will find some really good deals, like someone selling a $2000 set that is only a year old because the wifey wanted to upgrade to a cooler color. Or maybe someone facing foreclosure that is having a fire sale.

If you look at the right time, there are some great deals to be had!

From paw3:

"I hope you have seen my problem on the Cabrio. Of course, it is out of warranty. At 10 minutes left in a cycle, the machine becomes unbalanced and shuts off. No amount of repositioning the clothes will get it work. Finally called a repairman and he tells me, seal is bad, water in motor with rust and it will be over $800 to fix. I am so disappointed as I have always trusted Whirlpool. If you have seen this problem please let me know. I have found after calling 3 repair people that it is very hard to find someone who knows how to work on these things. As far as I am concerned, it is like all the people have said... THIS MACHINE IS A PIECE OF CRAP AND SHOULD NOT BE SOLD ANYMORE. Thanks for the web site. By the way, the repairman was looking for the F51 code and said it did appear at different times during the cyle. Thanks"

My response:

I have heard of this problem. It is not nearly as common as the other problems with these washers, but there are other people out there who have had the same problem.

I think this thread at the GardenWeb Laundry Forum is related to your problem. Check it out. And even though the warranty has expired, I would not hesitate to contact Whirlpool about this (assuming you haven't already). There is no reason the tub seal should have failed already.

Let me know how your call with Whirlpool goes.

~Brad

Reader response:

Thank-you so much for writing back so soon. I honestly didn't think I would get a response.

I called Whirlpool and could not believe the response I got. I explained to them the problem I had and how disappointed I was. I have never bought anything but Whirlpool products and have always gotten such good service out of them. Anyway, they told me as a customer service they were going to repair my washer. I was so happy and agreed to pay the labor. They put me on hold for a few moments and then came back and said they would pay the entire cost, parts and labor and someone would be out on Tuesday to do the service.

I must say, even if they had not been willing to pay, the lady I talked with was very nice and patient with me trying to explain to her what I have been through trying to get this washer fixed. I had given up on the washer and had already purchased another one but had not picked it up yet. So, I was able to return the one I had just purchased which was fantastic.

So Brad, again, thank-you for your suggestion to call them and for the link you sent of other people having this same problem with fairly new washers. Since it was out of warranty I really didn't expect any help. This restores my faith a little in big business doing the right thing. Brad, your a jewel.

My response:

I am very happy that Whirlpool came through for you on this. But the repair is not complete yet, so let's see what happens Tuesday when they come to do the repair. I am hoping that they will bring all of the parts necessary to finish the job, since the washer was already looked at.

Please let me know what happens Tuesday, and whether or not you have a fully-functional washer when they leave.

And thank you very much for the compliment!

~Brad

From George:

"Just found your blog tonight after buying a GE front loader set tonight to replace my Kenmore (Whirlpool) HE3 Elite that self destructed this week after almost six years of use. The spider assembly that holds the drive shaft to the basket apparently is made of aluminum and corrodes in the presence of detergent. When it blew at 900 RPM it took out the drum and the water pump. Found several web pages where the same thing has happened to others. As you seem to know, neither Sears nor Whirlpool seems to have any sort of failure analysis department or any interest in possible design problems. When I called the Whirlpool Corporate office in Michigan they told me that they have no access to their Engineering or Production departments. Making a critical part out of a reactive metal is just stupid from an engineering point of view. I could not find anyone that would tell me if this part is common to some or all of their brands of washers. I’ll send you picture of my corroded basket for giggles.

"Keep up the good work"

George then includes the picture below.





George then follows up with another email:

"Brad,

"I have an update for you. I sent an Email to Whirlpools CEO Mr. Fettig and to my great surprise he had some one call me back this week. They were very interested in my photos of the damage. I got a call back telling me that the damage was caused by the reaction of chlorine on the metal. Who knew that a washer might be exposed to chlorine?!! They said that most front loader manufacturers have had this problem in the past and that they are now using a different alloy to make the spider assembly. I got an apology for the trouble I’ve had and was offered a free countertop appliance from their Kitchenaid line of products. None of which I really need or want. They thanked me for my concerns about their products and assured me that they follow up on all customer complaints. I did mention the trouble I had trying to find someone at Whirlpool customer service that had any interest or knowledge that would help me figure out what happened to my machine. I was told that Whirlpool no longer has a technical help line due to liability issues. I guess if I hurt myself repairing a machine following their techs advice, they would be worried I would sue them. I made sure to let them know that because I did not get a timely reply to my questions I went out a bought a GE laundry pair hoping that it used a different spider assembly.

"So I guess they do have a group that checks out issues but it takes a lot of time frustration to find them. I should not have to contact the CEO of a company to get action on a product issue."

I decided to look into this a bit further and was surprised that I had not heard of this problem before. I was also surprised that some engineer (or, evidently, several) thought it a good idea to mate stainless steel and aluminum together for prolonged submersion in detergent and chlorine bleach solutions.

I found the following video on YouTube made by a gentleman who deconstructs his wrecked Frigidaire washer. This video provides a wonderful insight into how crappy some products are manufactured.




UPDATE 7/11/09: I was curious about this issue, so I emailed Electrolux with questions regarding the spider assemblies of Frigidaire and Electrolux washer. A day later, I got a response (the first I have ever received from Electrolux) saying "The material for the spider was changed to a new alloy in 2004. We do not have problems with failure of these parts."

So there you go. If you buy a Frigidaire or Electrolux frontload washer, you can rest assured the washer will not self-destruct due to galvanic corrosion caused by two dissimilar metals being mated together.

Now to see if Whirlpool and others will respond...

From Melissa:

Dear Brad,

First of all I have to tell you that your blog has been a tremendous help in getting to the bottom of the pesky F1 code I have been getting on my Maytag Bravos machine. I called a for a repair last week and I wish I would have found your blog before he came. He told me that the cause of the F1 code was partially the fact that I was not using h/e detergent, I make my own powder formula of borax, washing soda and fels naptha, but also the fact that I was using too much and the soap was not completely cleaning out of the lines. The build up was causing the F1 code, he said he saw this with people using too much h/e detergents also. He suggested running more hot water through the lines and using less soap. I have done along with cleaning with vinegar and store bought washing machine cleaner for the past week and its still coding. That was when I went searching for answers and found your blog. My first question is what causes this code? Is it bad manufacturing or my using the wrong/too much detergent? Can it clear itself or does it need to be repaired? What are the consequences of not getting it repaired, will it cause worse damage to the machine? This code only comes up on the first load of the day. If I have multiple loads the other loads usually don't code.

Thanks for your help and I look forward to hearing back from you to get an idea of what I should do next regarding this problems.

Sincerely,
Melissa

My response:

Melissa,

It is possible that the F1 code was caused by your laundry habits (detergent), but I think that is unlikely. Too many of these machines have problems with the F1 error code. There is a known problem with the Oasis / Cabrio / Bravos machines. However, I thought that the Bravos had been introduced by the time Whirlpool was aware of these problems, and would have had them sorted out. Silly me.

I do not know if changing your habits will fix the problem. I would try to run a few loads of towels with just water (no detergent or anything) to try and flush out any excess detergent residue you may have. I don't know if you are able to set your own water level on this machine, but if you are, I would just run an empty load or two. The objective in doing this is to see what the machine does. If the machine continues to throw the code even after you have run some empty loads to rid the machine of detergent build-up, then the problem is not your detergent.

You did not say whether the machine is still under warranty. If it is, I would find another Maytag servicer in your area. The guy who has been out there has already made up his mind that the problem is with you, not the machine. If it is no longer under warranty, call the Maytag customer service line and explain the situation. Be firm, but be polite. Drop the words "recall" and "class action lawsuit" and see what they say. I suspect they will agree to fix the problem.

Let me know what happens. This is not a problem you should have to live with. Thanks for writing!

~Brad